From:   IN%"traveller@engrg.uwo.ca"   22-JUN-1994 21:04 *
To:     IN%"traveller@engrg.uwo.ca"
Subj:   TML biweekly: Msgs 8044-8065 V46#20
 
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Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 21:00:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML biweekly: Msgs 8044-8065 V46#20
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 1994
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TML biweekly    Wed Jun 22 21:00:03 EDT 1994    Volume 46 : Issue 20
 
Today's topics:
 
BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 644  8044 19-Jun-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  TNE, DES, GEN : RPVs << TML Categories:
 644  8045 19-Jun-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  TNE/SCEN/GEN : Shall not Perish << TNE,
 644  8046 19-Jun-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  TNE, SCEN, GEN :VIRUSproof equip << TNE
 644  8047 20-Jun-1994 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  CASUAL ENCOUNTER: SHIP'S CATS << CASUAL
 644  8048 20-Jun-1994 kirschj@rhea.in  RE: ALL: Regency & Var. answers << as a
 644  8049 20-Jun-1994 Michael Llaneza  Feudal Technocracies << If in a traditi
 644  8050 20-Jun-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  Re:Feudal Techno << I would like to bac
 644  8051 20-Jun-1994 KELLOGG@thorin.  Lost Address:  Gregg Giles << A few wee
 644  8052 20-Jun-1994 David Johnson    Misc: Pugnacious Phil << Gentlesophonts
 644  8053 21-Jun-1994 r.medors@genie.  Technocracy? << Hello all,
 644  8054 20-Jun-1994 David Johnson    TNE: Shall Not Perish: Regency Democrac
 644  8055 21-Jun-1994 "Les Howie"      Remote Fighters << PSUAlum@aol.com ( PB
 644  8056 21-Jun-1994 b.borich@genie.  Regency Sourcebook <<     GDW has annou
 644  8057 21-Jun-1994 Sebastien PERKI  UNSUBSCRIBE << bye for now !!!
 645  8058 21-Jun-1994 alvin plummer    Armed Forces / World << Hi, I'm Alvin P
 645  8059 21-Jun-1994 PPUGLIESE@pimac  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 8044-8052 V77#2 <
 645  8060 21-Jun-1994 CHiggin@aol.com  Technocracy discussion << Everyone invo
 645  8061 21-Jun-1994 Gregg Giles      I'm moving - please modify your records
 645  8062 21-Jun-1994 Jim Pendergraft  Original Traveller Stuff for Sale << I
 645  8063 21-Jun-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  GEN : pop growth << GEN
 645  8064 21-Jun-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  Re:You tell em Dave << The Feud Tech th
 645  8065 21-Jun-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  GEN : feudal tech << GEN
 
This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
submission address will be distributed. The biweekly digest is currently
distributed each Wednesday and Sunday at 9:00pm.
 
Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)
 
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8044
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 23:17:20 EDT
Subject: TNE, DES, GEN : RPVs
 
TML Categories: TNE, DES, GEN
 
Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no> posted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually I don't buy the idea of remote controlled fighters. Ever
thought about the time lag in communications? And what kind of
 
communicator do you use for control?
(et cetera)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
Ohhh noooo someone is trying to put the science in my sci fi.  I don't
entirely agree with the difficulty in laser communicators (also FFS has
maser and meson communicators that are also tight-beam) but you are
correct about comm lags over a distance.  Possibly an electronics
/control craft would need to accompany each squadron.
 
Insomuch as keeping comm links with the remotely piloted vehicles (rpv)
should you lose contact the rpv should have rudimentary programming to
either allow it to continue the mission or break off and withdraw to a
programmed marshalling point.   Also a radio backup could come online to
attempt recommunication before switching back to tight-beam modes.
 
Also my theoretical tender/carrier would have an extensive suite of all
the best electronic/communication gear that would enable it to monitor
the precise location of all craft invloved in the action, especially its
rpvs, so if a comm lock was momentarily lost with a particular unit its
position could be scanned, adjusted for its vector, and tight-beam comm
reestablished.
 
Unless I missed an important section of the official rules nothing is
mentioned in either TNE or FFS about communication lags (which I agree
would definitely exist) or major difficulties with maintaining laser (or
maser, meson) communications.
 
 
PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8045
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 23:18:25 EDT
Subject: TNE/SCEN/GEN : Shall not Perish
 
TNE, SCEN, GEN
 
> Subject: Military threats to the Regency
>
> can anybody think of any others?
 
Younger sons/daughters of Regency nobles and/or ihatai upset at the
limited opportunities for advancement within the ranks of nobility and
also the acquisition of new systems as fiefs.  This is somewhat related
to the anti-democratic reform movement.
 
I wrote:
 
> FICT/SCEN/AHIS : Shall Not Perish - Government
 
> I think there would be some basis for Planetary
> Courts either in place of or in addition to these District Courts.
 
I never ruled out that this function was performed by the nobility of
the Regency.  Although I would think one of the initial reforms of
democracy would be to remove the power of the nobility from the courts.
 
 
PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8046
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 23:18:47 EDT
Subject: TNE, SCEN, GEN :VIRUSproof equip
 
TNE, SCEN, GEN
 
Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu> writes:
 
> I think that the rebellion's influence is minimal compared
> to the influence of the black war and Virus.
> Dealing with this threat
> will profoundly change the Regency.  Think of all of the computers and
> electronic they must have.  Why to convert them to safer
configurations
> could take decades...
 
This provides some interesting role-playing opportunities.  I don't know
of any gov't/military organization that orders a particular piece of
equipment (that need to be replaced) to be immediately removed and
destroyed and the replacement issued to every single unit/ship/person
that works with that equipment.
 
It would seem that while the units on the frontline might immediately be
equipped with VIRUS-safe comps reserve units and those on the Spinward
border would almost certainly not.  It is also doubtful that the
frontline units would universally received such improved equipment.  No
doubt a great deal of jury-rigged comps are being used.
 
Now imagine a group of players venturing forth against a possible VIRUS
hazard.  Is the equipment they are issued protected against the VIRUS?
If jury-rigged is the performance downgraded?  How successful is the
jury-rigging?  Not to mention that it is rare for a piece of equipment
to work as advertised when it is state-of-the-art,  the bugs always have
to be worked out:)
 
Regarding the possibility that the Regency military (regular navy) is
involved in VIRUS actions it is my opinion that if they are it is only
in a reservce capacity.  The Regency Quarantine Service was established
to perform this duty (by guarding and maintaining the quarantine zone
[gee doesn't that sound like the Neutral Zone?]) but if a major invasion
by a Vampire fleet were identified no doubt the RQS could call upon Navy
fleets to meet this threat.  Possibly the protocols for calling on Navy
assistance were inadequately implemented when the Rape of Trin occurred.
 
Just my Cr2 worth.
 
 
 
PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8047
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 04:40:44 EDT
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: CASUAL ENCOUNTER: SHIP'S CATS
 
CASUAL ENCOUNTER:    SHIP'S CATS
 
        There is a breed of cats called "Ship's Cats" that have
been specifically bred to serve on space ships. There have been
small amounts of genetic tinkering in their line. This has mainly
been changes to their instinctual reactions to certain things.
Of course the original product has interbred and changed over time
leaving a species which is partially engineered and partially
adapted.
        Ship's Cats can deal well with changes in gravity and
can cope quite well in zero-G. Most understand standard "brace
for acceleration" warnings and can act accordingly. Special
cat-spacesuits are available on the market and it takes minimal
training for a cat to learn how to get in and seal themselves.
        Although they are still competent at chasing out small
vermin of a variety of species (which *still* can cause problems
on ships) they are less skilled at this than their terrestrial
companions. They do have a keen sensitivity to changes in
pressure and electrical disturbances. Often their behaviour can
point to potential problems.
        They tend to understand the difference between Crew and
Passengers and are good at not being seen by people who would not
appreciate seeing them. Exceptional specimens can even distinguish
between High and Middle passengers.
        Ships Cats are more restrained in their breeding habits.
They tend to remain infertile for long periods during travel.
They will come into heat when at dock for an extended period,
such as during annual maintenance. Also if they are with another
animal that is not a near relation they will move into a breeding
cycle. Their ability to distinguish relations is based on scent
and makes it safe to have more than one cat from one family on
a ship.
        The offspring of these family units are highly sought
after. Many of their skills are learned from their parents and
the type of ship they were raised on. As such there are Navy
breeds, Merchant breeds, etc, etc. Certain family lines are
widely known and the subject of idle dockside talk.
        Most spaceports allow registered ship's cats into
their extrality zone with the same processing as for crew.
All such animals must be identified, though.
 
        Moving from the general to the specific, my players had
a Ship's Cat for ages but lost it due to various events. At one
point they decided they wanted another. Nothing specifically
notable happened with their first one, it was just generally
useful. However they decided to buy their next one at a small pop,
tech level G spaceport. I decided that the selection was limited
and give them three choices.
        The first was a fairly mangy looking beast. This, of
course was the best buy, being an authentic experienced cat. They
could have got it at a good price as the sales people didn't think
much of it.
        The second was basically your standard Terrestrial Model
Russian Blue. Pretty, pedigree, and pretty expensive. But,
just a cat.
        The third was just for laughs: a cross-eyed neurotic
Siamese with a god-awful throaty meow. Moderate in price.
        What do the players go for? The bloody Siamese! They
named it "Crosby" because of the eyes and thought it was
cute as it wandered around bumping into things.
        It has, of course, been no end of trouble for them.
Crosby has a knack of turning up in the wrong place at the
wrong time. Perhaps it has some of the Ship's Cat's genes
bred into it: in reverse. Usually it announces its presence
in such a circumstance with its throaty yowl.
        It sat on passenger's breakfasts. It crapped in the
marine's shoes. It managed to get into the Exec's shower
cubicle and turned it on without being discovered for several
hours.
        In one circumstance the players were involved in a
sniper fight in a crashed spaceship on a planets surface.
Suddenly, on their internal speaker channel they hear Crosby's
familiar yowl. "It must be warning us!" they decide and
send some of them racing back to the ship (parked nearby)
to see what was up. When they got there Crosby was sitting
on the bridge console playing with the pretty lights.
        Later they were making a tension filled landing
on the base of a dubious genetic lab under threat of
a laser battery (see the Critter follow-up posted earlier)
with a critically wounded passenger. Just as they are
committing to landing up jumps Crosby onto the bridge
console as pleasantly as your own moggy jumps on they
Sunday paper you are trying to read.
        They began wondering how Crosby, who could barely
walk in a straight line, could keep getting into places
that were crew-locked. Eventually they found out the
ship's Chief Steward had entered Crosby onto the database
as ship's crew for tax reasons. This meant that the
ships computer considered Crosby crew. Crosby's yowls
matched no known language recognition so the ship had
dutifully engaged the self learning language ability
and tried to comprehend the feline utterances as orders.
Of course, it frequently got it wrong. So far the worst
Crosby has managed to do was lock everyone off the ship.
It hasn't found the right pitch for self-destruct just
yet...
 
(replies to jo_grant@crd.lotus.com, NOT the reply header)
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8048
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 12:51:11 MET_DST
From: kirschj@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: RE: ALL: Regency & Var. answers
 
as answer to b.borich@genie.geis.com comments:
>     <Kirsch> Care to post your designs? I'm sure there are plenty of people
> who might like to see/use them.
 
I will post some designs in the next weeks. I'm preparing some sessions for next
weekends large con in germany, FeenCon in Bonn Bad Godesberg, so I'm a bit busy.
Because I like High Tech designs using Thruster Plates, I did some odd things
like a Fighter of less than one displacement ton. Think of it, using EMS Jammer
and EMM it's impossible to detect (Submicro: +2 to detect against active and
passiv EMS, EMM +1 against EMS, EMS Jammer: an additional +1 or +2 (depends on
TL of sensing ship) is: +4 or +5 to difficulty. If the fighter is in short range
the base difficulty is Average + 4 diff level = 1 more than impossible, so no
task allowed). At the moment I check if I can do this using fusion power plant
instead of the currently installed MAA plant.
 
>     <Kirsch: Is someone compiling the submitted weapon specs in one archive?>
> I have something of a compilation. There aren't many yet.
 
I saw several submissions of weapons in this list, but what I need are some
stats like in RC Equipment Guide (I just don't bother the design sequence, I'm
just too lazy to design small arms. I stick to Starships and Vehicles).
 
Juergen
P.S.: Is it possible to include a name in the posting? I don't like to answer
      to email adresses as above.
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8049
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 09:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Feudal Technocracies
 
 
If in a traditional feudalism the economic basis is land;; then would in=20
a feudal technocracy the basis be technical resources?
By this I mean the resources that are required for a functioning high=20
tech society. F=D5rinstance the Duke of Water Management would own all=20
water purification and sewage treatment plants, aqueducts, and=20
reservoirs.  He would claim fealty and service from the Countess of the=20
Western Region and she would in turn claimservice from her site managers;=
=20
which positions being assigned by her much as a medieval lord would=20
assign land.
The question is in allocation of resources. To keep with the feudal=20
tgadition I will suggest that many of these positions  be inherited. We=20
may also see a situation where a university degree would carry the same=20
prestige as minor patent of nobility.=20
With education being a prerequisite for technical functioning most=20
schools operating under a fedal technocracy, much of the school=D5s=20
resources would go towards educating the noble children. Likely,=20
=D4peasant=D5 children who show promise would receive an education and beco=
me=20
minor nobility themselves.
I doubt that education would be directly linked to educational=20
acheivment. More likely noble rank will be linked to educational=20
opportunities.
If anyone else would like to expand on these notes, please feel free.
Michael Carter Llaneza
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8050
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 14:52:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re:Feudal Techno
 
I would like to back the motion that the Feudal Technocracy discussion be
moved off of the TML, as interesting as it WAS, I can only watch C-SPAN
for a half hour or so before I change the Channel.  The suggestion about
summarizing the discussion for presentation to all TMLers is one I could
really go for.  Im sure of the 400+ TMLers out there, most share my opinion.
 
Tariq
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8051
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 14:34:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: KELLOGG@thorin.uthscsa.edu
Subject: Lost Address:  Gregg Giles
 
A few weeks back Gregg Giles expressed an interest in some
Traveller items for sale.  Unfortunately mail to his address bounces.
If you're still out there, please drop me a line for some Trav
stuff I'm selling.  (Or any other interested parties who aren't currently
in the bidding.)
 
And while I'm at it:  Allen Shock?  What's your address?
 
Thanx,
 
Scott 2G Kellogg
Kellogg@thorin.uthscsa.edu
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8052
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 14:42:08 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Misc: Pugnacious Phil
 
Gentlesophonts:
 
Once again Phil Pugliese <PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu> has chosen to insult
me on the TML because he doesn't like what I have to say.  Frankly, I'm
getting a little tired of this.  I find it incredible that this guy can
bitch about wasting bandwidth at the same time he's hurling personal
insults!
 
To set the record straight on the Feudal Technocracy thread, this discussion
went off-line almost *immediately* as soon as folks expressed some dismay
at its lengthiness and relevancy.  My last posts on the matter appeared
the *same* night as the first request by Andy Lilly that the discussion
move off-line.  The last feudal technocracy post to appear from *anyone*
appeared the night immediately following Andy's request.  Furthermore,
while there have only been three (3) requests to move the discussion off-
line (including that cretin Phil's) there have been *at least* ten (10)
TML members who have contributed constructively to the discussion.
 
So please, Phil, will you crawl back under your rock?  I thought you had
run away to XTML anyway?
 
David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA
 
P.S.  Sorry, folks, but I suspect this creep is really going to start
      wasting everyone's bandwidth now.  Rest assured though, this will
      be *my* last post on the matter.
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8053
From: r.medors@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 00:46:00 UTC
Subject: Technocracy?
 
Hello all,
     This is my first post here on the TML.
 
 *** I whole heartly agree with others that have posted recently about the
on going discussion about technocracy.  In my humble opinion if you have
serious questions about same, then please climb into your vehicle, drive to
a library and believe it or not they have all kinds of information about
technocracy.
     You see I happen to be one of the many people that have TML going to an
account that I PAY for on-line time, so please be considerate of us.  If you
have to discuss such (not necessarily a traveller topic, at least not
recently) material then please do it elsewhere.
 
 
                                     Thanks all,
                              -Randy -
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8054
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 21:51:51 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE: Shall Not Perish: Regency Democracy
 
Gentlesophonts:
 
Great!  We're back on some more development for our TML Regency Sourcebook:
*Shall Not Perish*.  This time it's more on the rise of democracy in the
Regency (and the backlash against it).
 
PBJuzyk <PSUAlum@aol.com> writes:
 
> Younger sons/daughters of Regency nobles and/or ihatai upset at the
> limited opportunities for advancement within the ranks of nobility and
> also the acquisition of new systems as fiefs.  This is somewhat related
> to the anti-democratic reform movement.
 
Anyone have any idea where (what fiefs) these folks might be located?
Who are the leaders and where is their base of support.
 
> > I think there would be some basis for Planetary
> > Courts either in place of or in addition to these District Courts.
>
> I never ruled out that this function was performed by the nobility of
> the Regency.  Although I would think one of the initial reforms of
> democracy would be to remove the power of the nobility from the courts.
 
We've had two areas where it has been suggested the power of the nobility
has been weakened by the advent of democratic reforms: in the creation of
the Senate, a `lower house' of popularly-elected representatives that
exists alongside the Moot of nobles; and through the creation of a system
of courts that supplants the traditional role of the nobles in judicial
matters.
 
Where does the motivation for these moves come from?  Who is responsible for
bringing the `religion of democracy' to the Regency?  Is it coming from
above (the Regenct) or from below (the common folk)?  What is the basis of
it's claim for legitimacy?  Who are it's champions?  What are it's `holy
documents'?  Who are it's opponents?
 
This whole democracy thing is a tremendous change in the Regency.  We've
a lot of work to do here.
 
Let's get busy!
 
David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8055
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 08:24:55 ADT
From: "Les Howie"  <lhowie@192.219.29.90>
Reply-To: "Les Howie"  <lhowie@Prograph.Com>
Subject: Remote Fighters
 
PSUAlum@aol.com ( PBJuzyk) wrote
>
> Also my theoretical tender/carrier would have an extensive suite of all
> the best electronic/communication gear that would enable it to monitor
> the precise location of all craft invloved in the action, especially its
> rpvs, so if a comm lock was momentarily lost with a particular unit its
> position could be scanned, adjusted for its vector, and tight-beam comm
> reestablished.
>
I believe (today I left my copy of FF&S at home, oh well) that fighters are
controlled through an MFC with capabilities comparable to a beam pointer.  In
rules terms, you should be amble to regain control of any fighter you can get a
lock on.  Having the fighter "go EMS active" when it is out of control would aid
in that.  You should get some bonus for knowing where the damn thing is,
however.
 
> Unless I missed an important section of the official rules nothing is
> mentioned in either TNE or FFS about communication lags (which I agree
> would definitely exist) or major difficulties with maintaining laser (or
> maser, meson) communications.
 
No, but I think the control range limit is something like the MFC's short range,
I presume is to account for lag and comm difficulties..
 
Unfortunately, FF&S does not provide much in the way of rules for automation.  I
hope that supplements will improve that without blowing game balance.  The
remote I would like to build (and which does not seem to be covered by the
rules) is a spy probe.  Something small, with lots of passive EMS and a limitted
interplanetary travel capability, as well as a powerful communicator.   With
such a beast, I could jump into the outer system and send a couple to sniff out
the Gas Giants and main world to evaluate enemy forces.
 
 
Les Howie
Prograph International
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8056
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 12:02:00 UTC
Subject: Regency Sourcebook
 
    GDW has announced that there will be a Regency sourcebook published
around Christmas time, along with at least an Equipment Guide of it's
own.
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 644
Archive-Message-Number: 8057
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:20:47 +0200
From: perkins@ensinfo.uvsq.fr (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
 
bye for now !!!
 
Seb
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8058
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 08:12:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: alvin plummer <plummer@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
Subject: Armed Forces / World
 
Hi, I'm Alvin Plummer, a new member of this mailgroup.  I recently bought
the Deluxe Edition of TNE, and would like to build a 'pocket empire'
outside of the Imperial universe.
 
I'd like to design the Armed Forces for my TL 12 government.  _Path of Tears_
gives some good information, but doesn't help me design Space Navies.
 
How would I determine the size of a Navy that a given world / multisystem
government should have ( in a Virus-free enviroment) ?  How should this
Navy be composed of: Carrer fleets, 10,000 disp escorts, Troop Transports,
armoured scouts, etc?
 
As you could guess, my mini-empire is going to do some expanding, being in
a similar situation that Britian was in it's empire-buildibng phase (from
exploration to piracy to colonies to Empire).  What are the main
differences between an expanding interstellar empire and a expanding wet
navy empire like Britian?
 
Thanks for your input,
  Alvin Plummer
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8059
Date: 21 Jun 1994 06:11:04 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 8044-8052 V77#2
 
Well well, it appears that Dave Johnson isn't quite as good at taking
it as he is in dishing it out. Well, Dave, you started it & I decided
to finish it. Bear that in mind the next time you decide to deliberately
agitate on the TML. Frankly, I'm as surprised as you profess to be that
*your* acrimonious behavior was tolerated as long as it was. Funny thing,
until you showed up, we had all managed to get along pretty well. I
wonder how?
 
Phil
Pugliese
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8060
From: CHiggin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 09:33:13 EDT
Subject: Technocracy discussion
 
Everyone involved in the Feudal Technocracy, PLEASE remove my name from your
mailing list!  I've gotten some interesting ideas from the earlier
discussion, but I am no longer interested, thank you.
 
                     -- Cynthia Higginbotham
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8061
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 07:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gregg Giles <ggiles@cie-2.uoregon.edu>
Subject: I'm moving - please modify your records (new address info)
 
 
   This  is  a short form letter to let you know that I will be moving from
the  Eugene  area  in  the next two weeks. I have accepted a position as an
Associate  Producer at Acclaim Entertainment in Oyster Bay, New York, which
is a suburb of New York City.
   While  I  am moving, and for some weeks after I arrive there, I will not
be  able to communicate with anyone over the Internet. However, you will be
able  to  send  me  mail which I will be able to collect once I do get back
onto  the  network.  If  you  want  to  send  me  mail,  send  it  to me at
ggiles@efn.org.  That account will be my mail repository until I have a new
account set up in New York.
   I  will be able to answer mail messages personally until around June 27,
at  which  time  my machine will probably be stuffed into a box and shipped
away. I expect to be out of contact until roughly mid-August.
   Until then, take care.
 
Gregg Giles
 
 
Note: The following email addresses are NO LONGER VALID for me:
      so!ggiles@efn.org             \
      ggiles%so@efn.org              \
      ggiles@so.efn.org               \  Use my NEW address instead:
      ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu          /         ggiles@efn.org
      ggiles@cie-2.uoregon.edu       /
      ggiles@greylady.uoregon.edu   /
 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Gregg Giles                          "The next thing I say to you will be true,
All opinions expressed are my own       the last thing I said was false." -Devo
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8062
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 11:58:40 -0400
From: jimp@dg-rtp.dg.com (Jim Pendergraft)
Subject: Original Traveller Stuff for Sale
 
I have a bunch of Traveller material that I no longer need.  I guess the
easiest thing to do is just take offers on whatever strikes someone's
fancy.  As far as I can tell, everything here has been out of print for
years. I'd love to sell the whole pile to one person of course - that would
save lots of time and energy.  Best offer over $50 gets the whole pile.
If I don't get a good offer on the whole thing, then I'll split it up.
I don't want to make photocopies of things for people - that might take
forever.  Anyone in the RTP, NC area is welcome to look at any of it.
(Are you still around Martin?)
 
Here is the list of what I have:
 
GDW
 
        Atlas of the Imperium
        Best of the Journal vol 1
        Best of the Journal vol 2
        Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #10-18,21
 
        Box Set (books 1,2,3)
        Book 4 - Mercenary
        Book 5 - High Guard
        Book 7 - Merchant Prince
 
        Adventure 1 - Kinunir
        Adventure 3 - Twilight's Peak
        Adventure 8 - Prison Planet
 
        Supplement 1 - 1001 Characters
        Supplement 2 - Animal Encounters
        Supplement 3 - Spinward Marches
        Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium
        Supplement 6 - 76 Patrons
        Supplement 7 - Traders and Gunboats
        Supplement 8 - Library Data A-M
        Supplement 10 - Solomani Rim
        Supplement 11 - Library Data n-Z
 
Judges Guild
 
        Ley Sector
        Referee Screen
        Starships and Spacecraft
 
FASA
        Legend of the Sky Raiders
        Trail of the Sky Raiders
        Fate of the Sky Raiders
 
        Stranded on Arden - an adventure by Marc Miller.  I can't figure out
                where this came from.  It is an 8 page module on cardstock
                in 8.5x11 format and is copyright GDW.
 
I also have a bunch of articles about Traveller that were either pulled
or copied from magazines in the early 80s:
        - Canard (module) (Dragon Nov 80)
        - Make Your Own Aliens (Dragon July 81)
        - (this is a series of articles that overlap from page to page)
                Plotting a Course for Choosy Players, New Ideas for Old Ships,
                Planet Parameters, Masers and Cameras, The Miller Milk Bottle
                (Dragon July 81)
        - Filling In Skills (Dragon Nov 81)
        - Exonidas Spaceport (module) (Dragon March 82)
        - Dwarves in Space (Dragon - I think, by Roger Moore)
        - Star Patrol (White Dwarf - I think - it has a little dwarf icon at
                        the end of the article)
        - An Alternative to Services in Traveller (Pegasus (JG magazine))
        - Scepter and Starship (Pegasus)
        - Face Turned Blue (Vac Suits in Traveller) (Pegasus)
 
Everything is in good condition - some nearly mint, some a little worn.
If the condition of a particular item is very important to you, ask me and
I'll look.  As far as I know everything is complete (not counting built
in incompleteness due to typos and rules errors of course)
 
I'll probably post this to Usenet in a week or two, along with a bunch of other
SF and Fantasy RPG stuff, but anything that gets a decent offer from this list
I'll go ahead and sell here.
 
Please remember to reply to me directly rather than to the whole list.
 
If there is a lot of interest, I'll send an update to the list.  Otherwise
I'll reply to whoever emails.
 
Jim
 
- ------------------------------------
Jim Pendergraft (jimp@dg-rtp.dg.com)
Data General Corporation
62 T. W. Alexander Drive
Research Triangle Park, NC  27709
(919)248-6136
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8063
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 13:50:33 EDT
Subject: GEN : pop growth
 
GEN
 
djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's my impression that most worlds in the Spinward Marches are going to
be more equivalent in terms of population growth to contemporary
`developed' nations than to `developing' nations (just my opinion).
Furthermore, while one might expect high birth rates and low death rates
(due to available high tech medical care) on `developing' worlds one
would also expect high rates of *emigration* (to high population worlds)
to keep the net growth rate low.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
I agree with your explanation for a lack of change in the pop numbers -
there's a lot of info in the UWPs of just the Spinward Marches, GDW
would have had to do an awful lot of work just to adjust those figures
for a 15 years period (just wait until they release 'official' Regency
data and have to deal with 80+ years!).
 
Actually changes in population I feel would depend on the planetary
environment and pop density with a bit of influence from the type of
government (possibly a corporate govt of oppresive dictatorship wouldn't
want even a 10% increase).  I should think that low pop worlds with
plenty of room for development would have quite a large increase in
population while harse environments would experience next to no growth
or a net loss as people seek more habitable worlds.
 
 
 
PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8064
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 13:38:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re:You tell em Dave
 
The Feud Tech thing got pulled off like that, I think that total removal
isnt the best either it was one of the more insightful and well thought
out discussions going on TML.  Even though it was getting voluminous I
kind of miss it....my post yesterday was kind of half cocked...Oh Well.
Thanks to Dave Johnson
 
However please dont kill it dead, TML needs discussions like that
 
 
In any event we dont people insulting people individually or in groups.
My XTML persona stays in XTML and my TML persona stays in TML,
they occaisonally talk but dont "cross the border" to insult people.
 
Tariq
 
 
------------------------------
 
Bundle: 645
Archive-Message-Number: 8065
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 13:50:48 EDT
Subject: GEN : feudal tech
 
GEN
 
From following the discussion on feudal technocracy I would have to
favor the idea that the fiefs would be some manner of single entity,
such as one company or one farm.  This seems to have more of the flavor
of a feudal society as opposed to fiefs consisting of shares of a
corporation.
 
From the discussion my understanding is that the vassel receives the
fief in return for service provided to the lord.  This agreement is an
oath of fealty and carries obligations which, if not followed,
constitute breaking the oath.
 
While shares could possibly be provided to the vassel such a fief would
seem to be less likely of producing something that could be used to
'pay' the obligation.  A physical fief requires an expert (technocrat)
to operate it while the lord could just simple hold shares and directly
gain whatever benefits they provide.
 
Hans writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That the service a vassal gives in return for an industrial holding is
to manage the holding for the liege lord. Since the holding is a
business of some kind the vassal has to be competent to run the
business.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
You mean he is a TECHNOCRAT?
 
 
PBJuzyk                             | 'Most plans don't even survive
Reading, PA                         |  contact with Reality'
Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8) |   -Hammer Lanthrop, *Smash & Grab*
 
 
------------------------------
 
End of TML Biweekly
******************
